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New2Wauwatosa wrote:My kids tell me it is mostly the black girls who are doing the fighting, please stop with this nonsense of stress from the economy, what utter nonsense. These are kids from Milwaukee who lack all couthness and manners! Ah, now we get down to the essence of the argument. It's those black kids from Milwaukee causing all these problems. If we could just get rid of them, everything would be fine and dandy here in paradise. Because white kids from 'Tosa never have problems, never do anything wrong, never fight, never swear, never talk back to teachers, never have sex or lie or steal or bully or take drugs or vandalize property or get failing grades or drop out of school or do any of the other things that kids everywhere else in the world do to get themselves into trouble. Edit: I should add that I don't believe that everyone posting in this thread believes, as New2Wauwatosa does, that this is a problem of race.
The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize. Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
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Quote: Ah, now we get down to the essence of the argument. It's those black kids from Milwaukee causing all these problems. If we could just get rid of them, everything would be fine and dandy here in paradise. Because white kids from 'Tosa never have problems, never do anything wrong, never fight, never swear, never talk back to teachers, never have sex or lie or steal or bully or take drugs or vandalize property or get failing grades or drop out of school or do any of the other things that kids everywhere else in the world do to get themselves into trouble.
You need to stay on topic old woman. We are talking about the daily fights at Wauwatosa West, which if you bothered to review the police logs are mostly if not all involving female black students. This is a fact and cannot be refuted. Now move along and peddle your quackery!!
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Quote: 32Two 15-year-old girls and a 16-year-old girl, all of Milwaukee, were arrested for disorderly conduct for causing a disturbance at Wauwatosa West at 1:15 p.m. Feb. 1. Students were finding their seats for an all-school assembly in the auditorium when the girls started yelling and pushing kids out of their way so they could get to each other and fight. An associate principal climbed over a row of chairs to prevent the fight, but she slipped and injured her back.
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New2Wauwatosa wrote:My kids tell me it is mostly the black girls who are doing the fighting, please stop with this nonsense of stress from the economy, what utter nonsense. These are kids from Milwaukee who lack all couthness and manners! I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to link the particular event to questions about stress. I just meant that kids, like the rest of us, are feeling a little frayed right now. And I wonder what the school is seeing and how they address it. That's a different question from what kind of fighting was Honeywest talking about. Thanks for providing the police report. Though three girls on February 8 is not the same as constant fighting and chaos.
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Zorro asks why all the troubles?!
Perhaps Zorro should cut his vacation short and return sooner?!
Esta habitación ya está manchada de sangre ... un poco más no hará ninguna diffrence! - Don Diego
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New2Wauwatosa wrote:Quote: Ah, now we get down to the essence of the argument. It's those black kids from Milwaukee causing all these problems. If we could just get rid of them, everything would be fine and dandy here in paradise. Because white kids from 'Tosa never have problems, never do anything wrong, never fight, never swear, never talk back to teachers, never have sex or lie or steal or bully or take drugs or vandalize property or get failing grades or drop out of school or do any of the other things that kids everywhere else in the world do to get themselves into trouble.
You need to stay on topic old woman. We are talking about the daily fights at Wauwatosa West, which if you bothered to review the police logs are mostly if not all involving female black students. This is a fact and cannot be refuted. Now move along and peddle your quackery!! I knew it was you, Sybil.
The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize. Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
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Sadly, the fights mentioned earlier happened in the same room while the "motivational and inspirational speaker Milton Creagh was a guest in the district on Feb. 1. He was meeting with students at East and West high schools during the day to talk about the dangers of drug and alcohol abuse". http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wauwatosa-WI/Wauwatosa-School-District/140895819128According to a few friends whose children attend West, he stopped midway into the discussion and told the crowd that they were the most unruly group he has spoken to. I am not sure about the actual wording these teens took away from his speech, but if true, it is very disturbing. He is known to have a mission to change the world, one child at a time. Maybe it should be focused on more children at a time.  http://www.answers.com/topic/milton-creaghIt's sad to see the schools try to inspire kids while at the same time they disrespect the messenger. It doesn't matter whether the students live in Tosa or not. It matters that children have no respect for themselves.
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Nancy wrote:
I knew it was you, Sybil.
Helps that I outed him in a different thread at 7:15 
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I think the bigger question is when did this become acceptable behavior? My neighbor kids go to the school and they said rude and loud outbursts, messing around and general disrespect is the norm rather than the exception during most of the assemblies at West. They are upset about it and know it reflects poorly on their school. I have been a visitor and a speaker at other high schools for assembly programs and the second a student has stepped out of line a teacher or administrator has always been there to pluck the student from the crowd and be escorted out. Why does this behavior seem to be accepted at West? Anybody? Teachers, kids, anybody, please? Enlighten us.
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rubber wrote:Nancy wrote:
I knew it was you, Sybil.
Helps that I outed him in a different thread at 7:15 Yes. Thanks. I saw that after I posted this.
The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize. Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
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Anna wrote:I think the bigger question is when did this become acceptable behavior? My neighbor kids go to the school and they said rude and loud outbursts, messing around and general disrespect is the norm rather than the exception during most of the assemblies at West. They are upset about it and know it reflects poorly on their school. I have been a visitor and a speaker at other high schools for assembly programs and the second a student has stepped out of line a teacher or administrator has always been there to pluck the student from the crowd and be escorted out. Why does this behavior seem to be accepted at West? Anybody? Teachers, kids, anybody, please? Enlighten us.
That was my question, too. If a motivational speaker was able to control the crowd, why can't the staff at West control the same kids? I understand that Milton Creagh is a charismatic, skillful guy but the teaching and administrative staff at West are experienced educators who should also know how to set and enforce limits for adolescents. It almost sounds like the kids have taken over the school.
The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize. Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
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Tine wrote:oldtimer wrote:Tine I am uncertain what you are asking about in your last sentence? I'm asking how or whether the schools are addressing the stress, anxiety, and trauma these times are causing kids. Longterm unemployment, for example, has profound impact on the people who experience it. As you know, I'm one of them. I work hard not to let it affect my behavior but I know my kids worry about me. So I know the schools must be full of kids whose world is more uncertain than it used to be. Another area relevant to the schools is the stress and uncertainty of the future job market for students. How do you plan your future? What do you do when there's less money available for college and costs are soaring? Is a 4-year degree still the best way for most of our kids to go? This has to be affecting kids. Yet what I hear (and my ear is not especially to the ground on school issues) is sort of goofy stuff, like "we have to get more kids, even kids who aren't going to college, to take AP courses." I don't think that this is the role of our schools. Kids need to behave no matter where they come from. Whether they are 220, Open Enrollment or resident students if they can't follow the conduct rules they need to be punished. I think some of you ask the schools to handle too many issues that should be dealt with by parents. The schools should provide a good education and an environment for the education. If kids can't behave properly, they need to be expelled plain and simple.
TT
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tosatownie wrote:Tine wrote:oldtimer wrote:Tine I am uncertain what you are asking about in your last sentence? I'm asking how or whether the schools are addressing the stress, anxiety, and trauma these times are causing kids. Longterm unemployment, for example, has profound impact on the people who experience it. As you know, I'm one of them. I work hard not to let it affect my behavior but I know my kids worry about me. So I know the schools must be full of kids whose world is more uncertain than it used to be. Another area relevant to the schools is the stress and uncertainty of the future job market for students. How do you plan your future? What do you do when there's less money available for college and costs are soaring? Is a 4-year degree still the best way for most of our kids to go? This has to be affecting kids. Yet what I hear (and my ear is not especially to the ground on school issues) is sort of goofy stuff, like "we have to get more kids, even kids who aren't going to college, to take AP courses." I don't think that this is the role of our schools. Kids need to behave no matter where they come from. Whether they are 220, Open Enrollment or resident students if they can't follow the conduct rules they need to be punished. I think some of you ask the schools to handle too many issues that should be dealt with by parents. The schools should provide a good education and an environment for the education. If kids can't behave properly, they need to be expelled plain and simple. As I mentioned before, I should have been clearer about separating the two problems: bad behavior is one, the effects of a changing economy on kids is another. What I want to know is how the schools are dealing with their part of the second problem. I think that's mostly a guidance issue. When the money situation changes radically and when the jobs market changes radically, the same old advice might not work as well. If you don't think that's a legitimate concern of the schools, we'll just agree to disagree.
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tosatownie wrote:Kids need to behave no matter where they come from. Whether they are 220, Open Enrollment or resident students if they can't follow the conduct rules they need to be punished. I think some of you ask the schools to handle too many issues that should be dealt with by parents. The schools should provide a good education and an environment for the education. If kids can't behave properly, they need to be expelled plain and simple. I'm quite familiar with these schools which have been getting a lot of press lately, deservedly. Unfortunately, the public schools operate on a different playing field. Here, they have a registration day where enrolling students have to sit and listen to various presentations. If some kid is fooling around or even just slouching down in his seat, a teacher will come over and tell him to sit up straight, etc. If it happens more often, they may tell him to take a hike, that he's been cut from the program. So, along with the very large number of good serious kids in the public school system, you've got a "bottom of the barrel" that's increasing in size as the voucher schools siphon off students that meet their higher standards of behavior. I remember talking to a kid about 15 years ago who was choosing between Marquette and the Tosa schools. After really examining the situation he chose Tosa which turned out to be a fine decision that led to a very successful college and post-grad experience, and eventually a good career. I wonder what I would advise if I were asked the same questions today. I still believe public education is one of the bedrocks of our society, but knowing that over four years (of daily fights in the same building) you'd just about be guaranteed to come into contact with some goon with a weapon . . . I don't know . . .
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. -Oscar Wilde (anticipating, well over 100 years ago, anonymous Internet discussions)
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izzie wrote:I remember talking to a kid about 15 years ago who was choosing between Marquette and the Tosa schools. After really examining the situation he chose Tosa which turned out to be a fine decision that led to a very successful college and post-grad experience, and eventually a good career.
I wonder what I would advise if I were asked the same questions today. I still believe public education is one of the bedrocks of our society, but knowing that over four years (of daily fights in the same building) you'd just about be guaranteed to come into contact with some goon with a weapon . . . I don't know . . . We are considering Pius and Marquette (as opposed to East) for our oldest. He is in 7th grade now. I really want my kids to go to public school for so many reasons, but the schools aren't making it easy for us to decide that. It isn't the curriculum, the staff, or the extra-curricular activities. It is the behavior. Not to say private school kids don't get into trouble, but can you imagine what happens at West going on at Marquette or Pius? It just isn't acceptable there...bottom line. I don't know why they tolerate this behavior in the public schools.
Don't outsmart your common sense.
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cuddles wrote:Not to say private school kids don't get into trouble, but can you imagine what happens at West going on at Marquette or Pius? It just isn't acceptable there...bottom line. I don't know why they tolerate this behavior in the public schools. There. You hit the nail on the head. Now we've focused the issue. Why do the public schools apparently tolerate bad behavior?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. -Oscar Wilde (anticipating, well over 100 years ago, anonymous Internet discussions)
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I'm leaning towards private schools with my younger children. My oldest did fine at Tosa East but I'm not sure if my freshman will remain all 4 years. My daughters will probably go elsewhere. Not sure where yet as MUHS is not an option but I don't think that Pius is all that much different or better than Tosa East.
TT
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tosatownie wrote:...but I don't think that Pius is all that much different or better than Tosa East. Because of the behavior issues?
Don't outsmart your common sense.
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izzie wrote:cuddles wrote:Not to say private school kids don't get into trouble, but can you imagine what happens at West going on at Marquette or Pius? It just isn't acceptable there...bottom line. I don't know why they tolerate this behavior in the public schools. There. You hit the nail on the head. Now we've focused the issue. Why do the public schools apparently tolerate bad behavior? The question is do public schools tolerate bad behavior. My question is how do we ascertain if they do? Are there consequences for bad behavior? Are they applied? We have posts saying there are fights. We do not know if the students have been disciplined. If there is not some sort of discipline one could question the attitude of schools toward bad behavior. If some discipline has been administered, I would find it difficult to state that a school tolerates bad behavior. What makes this a difficult issue is that I would suspect there are privacy rules that prohibit the publication of specific disciplinary actions.
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oldtimer wrote:izzie wrote:cuddles wrote:Not to say private school kids don't get into trouble, but can you imagine what happens at West going on at Marquette or Pius? It just isn't acceptable there...bottom line. I don't know why they tolerate this behavior in the public schools. There. You hit the nail on the head. Now we've focused the issue. Why do the public schools apparently tolerate bad behavior? The question is do public schools tolerate bad behavior. My question is how do we ascertain if they do? Are there consequences for bad behavior? Are they applied? We have posts saying there are fights. We do not know if the students have been disciplined. If there is not some sort of discipline one could question the attitude of schools toward bad behavior. If some discipline has been administered, I would find it difficult to state that a school tolerates bad behavior. What makes this a difficult issue is that I would suspect there are privacy rules that prohibit the publication of specific disciplinary actions. Obviously there are going to be fights and bad behavior everywhere. Is there more bad behavior going on than in the past? Has the frequency of these fights and bad beavior increased? If there are consequences and the frequency is increasing, then we need to change the consequence to decrease the frequency. I disagree. If they know the consequences aren't working and continuing doing what they are doing, then they do tolerate bad behavior. Especially if they see that bad behavior increasing.
Don't outsmart your common sense.
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