Tosa Town Square
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

<<Boards Main>>
beck
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:04:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/31/2009
Posts: 1,109
Maybe you should start posting articles of people being killed by grapefruit. You should seek help for your homophobia and other various mental illnesses you have.

“Productiveness is your acceptance of morality, your recognition of the fact that you choose to live–that productive work is the process by which man's consciousness controls his existence, a constant process of acquiring knowledge and shaping matter to fit one's purpose, of translating an idea into physical form, of remaking the earth in the image of one's values–that all work is creative work if done by a thinking mind...” | Atlas Shrugged
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:14:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
commonsense2008 wrote:
prodigal son wrote:
commonsense2008 wrote:
The estimates of defensive gun use per year ranges from 100,000 times all the way up to 2.5 million times. It looks like it’s reasonable to say it’s in the 256,500-373,000 range. http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/smitht1.htm
So....based on Wauwatosa's population that would be about 47 major self defenses per year in Wauwatosa...where are all the news stories. ?


Using your methodology of using news reports to determine the frequency of something would lead to the conclusion that we have a lot of blizzards in Wisconsin and no nice average days. After all there are plenty of blizzard news stories, but not many that say yesterday was a plain average day. Does that mean we don’t have any plain average days?

I don’t see anyone arguing with you that there are accidental shootings. There are about 700 a year. The fact that they are heavily reported on doesn’t change the frequency of them. Looking at the people who study this kind of thing there are probably a few hundred thousand times a year that someone uses a gun for defense. Thankfully almost all of the time simply brandishing the firearm is enough to ward off a criminal. Not really newsworthy stuff. In a lot of cities you might not even get the police to show up and fill out a report. The lack of reporting doesn't change the frequency.


In the course of my lifetime, if I would have been carrying a gun at all times, I would have brandished it in quite a few situations. Since I haven't carried a gun, I have been able to get through life and all those situations utilizing alternative techniques. I suspect the defensive gun use totals you quote include a lot of situations such as mine. I really didn't need a gun obviously.

If you're equating Wauwatosa residents brandishing weapons in situations that truly warrant it, as plain average days that won't get reported, I doubt it. Perhaps Wauwatosa residents brandishing weapons in situations where it really was unnecessary to brandish in the first place....ya...that's like a plain ordinary day that wouldn't get into the news.

C'mon, it's Wauwatosa, people report suspicious situations and the police send 5 squads !

Please explain how the United Kingdom and other countries that don't allow gun possession have far fewer violent criminal incidents that utilize guns, and they don't have crime rates that are worse then ours. Apparently you can ward off attackers with pots and pans instead of guns.

One more point...so you say 700 accidental shooting per year. First, it's probably higher. Not every shooting gets reported. But, beyond that. Hardly anyone possesses a gun or carries a concealed weapon. That many accidents where injuries or death occur for a low percentage of people carrying guns. Arm everyone who can be armed and those totals will skyrocket.
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:18:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
beck wrote:
Maybe you should start posting articles of people being killed by grapefruit. You should seek help for your homophobia and other various mental illnesses you have.


I'm not the one who posts all the anti homosexual rhetoric like you did. You're the one who has a problem with homosexuality and as you call it "self abuse".
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:32:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
AndrewJ wrote:
prodigal son wrote:

Oh excuse me, I'll fill it in for you. Because you were worried the price would go up substantially and it might be more difficult to buy one plus it might be more difficult to get a permit to conceal and carry, because of Obama and his policies, and you wanted a good buy now in the event you wanted a gun later. I remember Andrew, but it's the underlying reason why you want a gun in the first place that I'm talking about. You want a small little handgun and you took a course to get a conceal and carry permit, not because you wanted to hunt chipmunks.

These are the games you play here. Besides, if they do make it harder to test out and get a conceal & carry permit, that's probably for the better because then only more capable people will get one. If you're not capable of passing a difficult test regarding a possession of such a weapon and carrying it around in public, you probably shouldn't be carrying it in the first place.


And here is the issue... you're acting like there is in fact an underlying reason, and that you know what it is. Like you're in my head making decisions for me. No offense, but you're no mind reader.

The underlying reason is to have the option of protecting myself should I feel it's necessary. Who are you to deny me that? Someone wanting to protect themselves doesn't mean they are afraid, or that they are some weak in the knees imbecile susceptible to talk radio rants. And that's exactly the picture you're painting.

When the fire bell rings at the firehouse and all the brave men and women jump out of their bunks and throw on their gear... are they scaredy-cats because they're protecting themselves from where they are headed? Or are they smart for using the tools available to them to ensure they stay safe? Based on your logic, they should be running into burning buildings in their boxer shorts/panties to prove they're not afraid of fire.


You can call it whatever you want, fear, worry, taking on the situation with authority....call it whatever you like. The bottom line is you want to walk around where I'm walking around and you want to carry something that is potentially dangerous to me when there is plenty of evidence to show that it's not very necessary. I'm not making up your reason for wanting your gun, you posted it earlier.

I'm not saying don't own a gun to prove your brave, never said that. I'm just saying there is very little good reason to own a gun and especially keep one that's loaded.
beck
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:12:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/31/2009
Posts: 1,109
Quick tell Bloomberg and Obama… we HAVE to outlaw grapefruit, it’s a killer!!!

“Productiveness is your acceptance of morality, your recognition of the fact that you choose to live–that productive work is the process by which man's consciousness controls his existence, a constant process of acquiring knowledge and shaping matter to fit one's purpose, of translating an idea into physical form, of remaking the earth in the image of one's values–that all work is creative work if done by a thinking mind...” | Atlas Shrugged
AndrewJ
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:00:13 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 902
Location: Wauwatosa
prodigal son wrote:

You can call it whatever you want, fear, worry, taking on the situation with authority....call it whatever you like. The bottom line is you want to walk around where I'm walking around and you want to carry something that is potentially dangerous to me when there is plenty of evidence to show that it's not very necessary. I'm not making up your reason for wanting your gun, you posted it earlier.

I'm not saying don't own a gun to prove your brave, never said that. I'm just saying there is very little good reason to own a gun and especially keep one that's loaded.


I am calling it what I want: utilizing the option I'm afforded to both own a weapon and carry it should I feel necessary. You're trying to force feed the explanation as fear. There are about 50 posts above this where you use that word over and over as the reason. You act as if anybody with a handgun only has one because they're scared armed Obama drones are going to march up their front lawn shooting nuclear laser beams, or some other such nonsense. In reality, people have the right to own handguns, and in 49/50 States the right to carry them, and choose to exercise that right.

What you are attempting to do is absolutely fear mongering, and you know it. You might as well post a thread about lightening strikes and rant on about they'll destroy us all!
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:22:12 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
AndrewJ wrote:
prodigal son wrote:

You can call it whatever you want, fear, worry, taking on the situation with authority....call it whatever you like. The bottom line is you want to walk around where I'm walking around and you want to carry something that is potentially dangerous to me when there is plenty of evidence to show that it's not very necessary. I'm not making up your reason for wanting your gun, you posted it earlier.

I'm not saying don't own a gun to prove your brave, never said that. I'm just saying there is very little good reason to own a gun and especially keep one that's loaded.


I am calling it what I want: utilizing the option I'm afforded to both own a weapon and carry it should I feel necessary. You're trying to force feed the explanation as fear. There are about 50 posts above this where you use that word over and over as the reason. You act as if anybody with a handgun only has one because they're scared armed Obama drones are going to march up their front lawn shooting nuclear laser beams, or some other such nonsense. In reality, people have the right to own handguns, and in 49/50 States the right to carry them, and choose to exercise that right.

What you are attempting to do is absolutely fear mongering, and you know it. You might as well post a thread about lightening strikes and rant on about they'll destroy us all!



Now who is pretending to read other peoples minds ! I'm not fear mongering. I'm balancing out a view on guns and the need for them. You see it as creating fear. If it makes you fearful, that's your issue. For most people it would just be information about reality. Maybe that's where all this fear talk is coming from in your head. Oh wait......I'm not really saying that you're fearful.

Why don't you and beck and everyone else start posting a whole bunch of stories about how people were saved by the gun they were concealing and carrying and that could neutralize my fearful stories.


prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:25:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
For commonsense....the following web site lists accidental shootings daily. I'm seeing 6, 7, 8 per day. 365 days per year, lets just go with 6 shootings per day, and that's just on this site, probably lots of other little shootings in little papers that never get picked up on the internet and this site. 365X6=2190. That's a lot more then 700 as you estimated.

http://accidentalgunshots.tumblr.com/
commonsense2008
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:31:31 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/14/2008
Posts: 440
Location: WI
prodigal son wrote:
For commonsense....the following web site lists accidental shootings daily. I'm seeing 6, 7, 8 per day. 365 days per year, lets just go with 6 shootings per day, and that's just on this site, probably lots of other little shootings in little papers that never get picked up on the internet and this site. 365X6=2190. That's a lot more then 700 as you estimated.
http://accidentalgunshots.tumblr.com/

I meant 700 accidental shooting deaths a year.
prodigal son wrote:
The bottom line is you want to walk around where I'm walking around and you want to carry something that is potentially dangerous to me when there is plenty of evidence to show that it's not very necessary.

So “plenty of evidence” is a lack of newspaper articles from Wauwatosa? Or is “plenty of evidence” the fact that Japan hasn’t been attacked since WWII? Or is “plenty of evidence” the fact that you have never needed a gun to defend yourself, so no one else must ever need one? So far this seems to be your “evidence.”


If there is any one secret of success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own. Henry Ford
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:23:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
commonsense2008 wrote:
prodigal son wrote:
For commonsense....the following web site lists accidental shootings daily. I'm seeing 6, 7, 8 per day. 365 days per year, lets just go with 6 shootings per day, and that's just on this site, probably lots of other little shootings in little papers that never get picked up on the internet and this site. 365X6=2190. That's a lot more then 700 as you estimated.
http://accidentalgunshots.tumblr.com/

I meant 700 accidental shooting deaths a year.
prodigal son wrote:
The bottom line is you want to walk around where I'm walking around and you want to carry something that is potentially dangerous to me when there is plenty of evidence to show that it's not very necessary.

So “plenty of evidence” is a lack of newspaper articles from Wauwatosa? Or is “plenty of evidence” the fact that Japan hasn’t been attacked since WWII? Or is “plenty of evidence” the fact that you have never needed a gun to defend yourself, so no one else must ever need one? So far this seems to be your “evidence.”

Plenty of evidence is the variety of evidence that you pointed out and a lot of other varieties of evidence. Seriously, crime is actually dropping, you all are just victims of good marketing.
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:46:18 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-news/2013/03/pascagoula_range_master_back_a.html
( A range master violated one of his own rules....and blew a hole in a file cabinet. It happens to the best of 'em)

http://saratogian.com/articles/2013/03/05/news/doc51365bc935987372775325.txt
(Cop in school....gun goes off...in school....oh man...protection)

http://www.klewtv.com/news/local/Domestic-dispute-involved-shooting-of-girlfriend-195280681.html
(Domestic disputes will usually go better if there are no guns in the house)

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/08/30-0
(This is a little older, but this was two concealed & carry permit holders who duked it out and killed each other)

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Memphis-police-officer-shot-in-leg-non-critical-4330588.php
(Cops shooting cops when dogs come attacking)(And I'm really suppose to feel comfortable with non professionals telling me they are concealed & carrying so they can help out when some person goes crazy with semi-automatic weapons in a mall or movie theater or school...seriously ?)

http://www.tidewaternews.com/2013/03/05/teen-shot-in-sebrell/
(Shooting in a families house and then fights in the house about the shooting. Now if this family had a ping pong table instead of shotguns in the house, things might be different)

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2013/03/05/reserve-deputy-injured-when-gun-goes-off-in-hand/article?nclick_check=1
(Another law enforcement official shot by her own gun....you would think that these instances would be rare if guns were relatively safe)

http://www.wqow.com/story/21528665/2013/03/05/gun-accidentally-discharges-in-eau-claire-apartment-man-taken-to-hospital
(Another gun cleaner from Wisconsin shoots himself)

13 accidental shootings today that got reported in the accidental shooting blog. 13X365days would project out to 4745 people per year that were accidentally shot. Wow....in ten years, the whole City of Wauwatosa would have been accidentally shot if you want to get a perspective.

So tomorrow the assignment is for beck to produce 39 stories from yesterday where people were saved by carrying their concealed weapon. He said he could easily produce 3 for my every one. I think he was funning me.
prodigal son
Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:38:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
beck wrote:
Okay Prodigal Pantywaist you are obviously either an idiot or you suffer from some form of mental illness. Whine and cry all you want, I have a legal CC permit. I carry my firearm everywhere I go. The next time you are waiting in line for your quarter pound of turkey breast at pick n save, I could be standing right next to you. Don't panic my effete chunky friend, I spent 10 years in the army, I've been in the gulf war and to Bosnia and somolia, don't worry my chunky friend, I'll protect you.


http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/585574/Man-killed-by-accidental-shot-was-military-veteran.html?nav=5006
(A 53-year-old man who died Wednesday night after accidentally shooting himself in the head at his residence in Morgan County was a U.S. military veteran who was believed to be a master weapons instructor, police said.)

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/12603436.html
(Vet who was scheduled to be a deputy accidentally kills wife with a .45)

http://digitaljournal.com/article/331410
(Police accidentally shoot a veteran....pros shooting pros)

http://www.wvec.com/my-city/nnews/Veteran-Newport-News-police-officer-accidentally-shoots-himself--142390125.html
(police officer accidentally shoots self)

http://gossiponthis.com/2012/09/27/army-soldier-patrick-edward-myers-charged-manslaughter-accidentally-shooting-hiccuping-friend-face/

http://www.adn.com/2011/04/18/1816710/soldier-wounds-wife-while-cleaning.html
(Another vet and accidental shooting)

Ya beck....I've barely scratched the surface and there are stories all over about vets and gun accidents....your words are so comforting and reassuring....not !
AndrewJ
Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:52:33 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 902
Location: Wauwatosa
prodigal son wrote:

Now who is pretending to read other peoples minds ! I'm not fear mongering. I'm balancing out a view on guns and the need for them. You see it as creating fear. If it makes you fearful, that's your issue. For most people it would just be information about reality. Maybe that's where all this fear talk is coming from in your head. Oh wait......I'm not really saying that you're fearful.

Why don't you and beck and everyone else start posting a whole bunch of stories about how people were saved by the gun they were concealing and carrying and that could neutralize my fearful stories.


You're not creating any fear or doubt in my mind. I've been around guns in various forms for as long as I can remember. I'm trained to both carry and use mine, and I keep up on that training. For those who are not educated on the issue however, or those on the fence, you are fear mongering. You're finding needles in a hayloft and trying to sell that therefore the hayloft is actually completely full of needles.
prodigal son
Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:18:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
http://www.dailycampus.com/police-officer-accidentally-shot-during-manchester-community-college-lockdown-1.3005643#.UTgS9jdkiSo(

http://www.kwwl.com/story/21526811/iowa-officials-deputy-accidentally-shot-handgun




http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/22/1624721/at-least-5-people-were-accidentally-shot-in-a-single-day-this-week/?mobile=nc
(Children are especially vulnerable to gun violence, either intentional or accidental. According to the Centers for Disease Control, 129 children between age 1-19 died in gun accidents in 2010 (even more take their own lives using a gun belonging to a parent). A Harvard study linked prevalence of guns to unintentional gun-related deaths, finding that the four states with the highest gun ownership rates had mortality rates seven times higher than the four states with the lowest ownership rates.

There’s no real evidence suggesting that family homes with guns are less likely to be victims of crime than ones without deadly weapons.
AndrewJ
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:02:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 902
Location: Wauwatosa
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/21527239/apartment-fire-displaces-7-families
7 families displaced and an entire building up in flames!!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/02/12/lightning-bolt-strikes-vatican-pope-benedict-resignation/1913095/
My goodness... even the Pope is at risk!

http://www.exponent-telegram.com/article_744e7256-8399-11e2-83a5-0019bb2963f4.html
Poor kid couldn't even walk by himself afterwards. Glad to hear he's rebounded.
prodigal son
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 10:19:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
AndrewJ wrote:
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/21527239/apartment-fire-displaces-7-families
7 families displaced and an entire building up in flames!!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/02/12/lightning-bolt-strikes-vatican-pope-benedict-resignation/1913095/
My goodness... even the Pope is at risk!

http://www.exponent-telegram.com/article_744e7256-8399-11e2-83a5-0019bb2963f4.html
Poor kid couldn't even walk by himself afterwards. Glad to hear he's rebounded.


Guns are not an invention of Mother Nature. Regarding guns, I just want less of them around me as I walk around in public. I don't like walking around in public in a lightening storm either. Walking around in public in a lightening storm makes me feel unsafe, not safe. Walking around in public with a lot of people carrying loaded weapons does not make me feel safer, especially when I don't feel very unsafe in the first place. The accidents and intentional misuse of guns in public far outweighs my fear of what might happen so that I would need the gun.

I'm just looking at the odds of things, the reality of how our society really is and not how we perceive it to be. It's not really that dangerous. I'd rather work to reduce the things that are making it dangerous rather then run around with weapons on my person defending myself against a lot of danger.

By the way Andrew....are you aware that a lot of the laws preventing people from flying drones are to be lifted in the next few years. Like digital cameras they will begin to invade your space. They're coming, how are you going to protect yourself and your friends and family ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0buiu-LzzJM

prodigal son
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 10:35:53 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/12/world/europe/civilian-drones-farnborough

Other drones on sale or display include the iStart, a new ultra-light drone that can be carried in backpack and launched by hand, and the S-25, one of a range made by Austrian firm Aerie, which take off vertically, but fly like conventional planes.

http://www.wcvb.com/MIT-U-S-Commercial-Drone-Law-A-Good-Move/-/9849586/11254830/-/k2yh4nz/-/index.html
(They're coming)

Around 2015 I might be able to drop dog poop into Joeys drink as he lounges on his patio, grilling burgers, with his handgun by his side...from 400 feet up, while I'm sitting in my E-Z chair at home.

You're fighting a losing battle if you think your handgun is the answer.

Now Andrew, you might call this fear mongering, but really, it's just the facts.
AndrewJ
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 11:33:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 902
Location: Wauwatosa
prodigal son
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 12:20:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 3,131
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
AndrewJ wrote:
http://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/making-electromagnetic-weapons-directed-microwave-energy-0133231/
O-M-G y'all! Devices that can MAKE lightning! Doom is pending.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/25/bzzzt_aiee_take_that_malefactor/
Ray guns!!! The future is now! Beam me up, Scottie!!


You are the one who went out and bought the gun for an option of protection. O-M-G y'all !

My point all along has been, you won't ever be safe, so why carry around something potentially dangerous to others when you're not really safe because of it.
AndrewJ
Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 3:07:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 902
Location: Wauwatosa
prodigal son wrote:

You are the one who went out and bought the gun for an option of protection. O-M-G y'all !

My point all along has been, you won't ever be safe, so why carry around something potentially dangerous to others when you're not really safe because of it.



That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If I was attacked by someone or someone broke into my home, I'd be more safe by being defenseless?

Question: If you put on a blanket, do you get warmer? To make your above argument, you would in fact need to get colder. Which I suppose is possible if you keep your blankets in the freezer, but I'm sure you get my point.

Here's an idea, wear a head to toe rubber suit. Then you'll never have to worry about the deadly outbreak of lightning strikes.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_rubber_stop_you_from_getting_electrocuted
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
Classified
Looking for a used car, a new job or a place to live? Search our interactive online classified ads.

Jobs | Cars | Homes
Rentals | Personals | More
Shopping
Yellow Pages
Find goods and services from local merchants in the online yellow pages.

Search