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JiveTurkey
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:08:06 AM

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Joined: 7/5/2007
Posts: 649
Location: Wauwatosa
So, Sujata Sachdeva is pleading not guilty due to mental illness. What, she has a shopping addiction??? She stole money to buy things she couldn't afford....wouldn't that put just about every other thief into that category??

And the article makes mention that her husband made a compassionate gesture to her in the courtroom. What he had no idea what was going on?? They had an extra $30 million worth of stuff in the house and he didn't think anything was odd. So, my wife makes $x and shes spending money on cloths and stuff like she's making $xxxx, am I just supposed to think hey...she sure makes a dollar go a long way???

...I'm not here to make things better, only to observe and pass judgement.
tosatownie
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:57:18 AM

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Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 640
Location: wauwatosa
That is just crazy! ( Oh, I guess that's the point) It still shouldn't forgive the crime. She should do the time!

TT
Tine
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:31:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 1/24/2007
Posts: 3,955
Location: Tosa
JiveTurkey wrote:
So, Sujata Sachdeva is pleading not guilty due to mental illness. What, she has a shopping addiction??? She stole money to buy things she couldn't afford....wouldn't that put just about every other thief into that category??

And the article makes mention that her husband made a compassionate gesture to her in the courtroom. What he had no idea what was going on?? They had an extra $30 million worth of stuff in the house and he didn't think anything was odd. So, my wife makes $x and shes spending money on cloths and stuff like she's making $xxxx, am I just supposed to think hey...she sure makes a dollar go a long way???


Everybody I know in the mental health "business" took one look at the first report and said "Duh. She's bipolar."

Now, I am not saying people who are bipolar are of course embezzlers, though I am quite sure someone will say that's what I've said. But the combination of high energy workaholism, gradiose thinking, high intelligence and mad money spending (or sexual activity, especially for men) is strongly suggestive of this disorder.

Clearly, her thinking is disordered in some way. Does that let her off the hook? No, of course not. But it will be interesting to hear how much we learn about this, and whether she was on medication over those years.
happytransplant
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:41:03 AM

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Joined: 12/31/2007
Posts: 1,256
Location: Tosa
She should not be able to use this defense. I certainly do not think that she will get away with it; she was sooo publicly and actively involved that there will months worth of witnesses to refute.

Michale Koss holds some responsibility, and I'm sure the minority shareholders will get their day in court too. As CEO and CFO and COO how do you not miss $30, million on a company that last reported $38 million in sales. He was responsible for certifying the financial statements.

It is foolish for one person to wear as many hats as Koss did, and I can only guess that he did this because of his previous financial woes that resulted in bankruptcy.

Too soon old, too late smart.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Nancy
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:22:36 PM

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Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 7,461
Location: East Side Wauwatosa
happytransplant wrote:
She should not be able to use this defense. I certainly do not think that she will get away with it; she was sooo publicly and actively involved that there will months worth of witnesses to refute.

Michale Koss holds some responsibility, and I'm sure the minority shareholders will get their day in court too. As CEO and CFO and COO how do you not miss $30, million on a company that last reported $38 million in sales. He was responsible for certifying the financial statements.

It is foolish for one person to wear as many hats as Koss did, and I can only guess that he did this because of his previous financial woes that resulted in bankruptcy.

Too soon old, too late smart.


The not guilty by reason of insanity defense rarely works for anyone. I spent 4 1/2 years working with people who had committed crimes while floridly psychotic and it didn't make any difference at judgment time. These were people who just sat in their cells, screaming at the demons who were sitting in there with them. In some cases, I'm sure they were convicted just to get them off the streets though there were many who were so dangerous when psychotic that they needed to be locked up for that reason alone.

I also worked for 9 1/2 years at a civil hospital with people who had been judged NGRI. What they had in common was that they had been completely out of control when they committed their crimes and they did not respond to medication so they were completely out of control at the time of trial.

This woman, though she certainly does sound like she might have bipolar disorder, doesn't appear to be insane. She certainly isn't out of control.

I agree that Koss should bear some responsibility. I've also wondered whether this woman acted alone. That's an awful lot of money to go missing and unnoticed.

The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize.

Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
unclemeat
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:46:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 83
Location: The 5th circle of hell
Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying

Eye-rolling Shame on you

Regardless of the outcome, the "addiction" route is a good PR move. When Koss stock hits $0.00/share and everyone loses their job because of her, you'll still have to feel kind of bad as she's an addict.

I've known people on anti-depressants (lots of them), I've known people who committed suicide due to depression, people who have been addicted to everything from booze to hard drugs to weed to shopping... I still don't have much sympathy. Being sad is part of being alive. I worry more about people who are NOT depressed than those who are. As Nancy said, this lady seemingly has control over her actions and that should be the bottom line. Even if you're unhappy or craving something desperately, you still have the ability to say "no."

Also - I agree with others who say there has to be more to this than just her. In the wake of all the creative accounting disasters of the last decade, I don't see how a public company could let this much money slip under their radar. There had to have been more than just a crooked exec and lousy auditor involved.
stubbornoldman
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:25:22 PM
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Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 658
I want to know more about this accounting firm that Koss (er, I mean Sachdeva) used. Was it the same guy/gal who did it year in and year out? If so, that's a smoking gun for a conspiracy between Sue and the auditor(s). If she's got a mental illness that causes her to want things she can't afford on her own, then I've got the same mental illness because I want to drive a new BMW every year. It's crap. I want to be on that jury. That'll never happen because I listen to 'talk radio' and any defense attorney will strike me from the pool. Listening to Mark Belling's radio show as often as I do automatically makes me 'incredible' in more ways than one. Get it? Not credible, yet extraordinary. I crack myself up sometimes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incredible

The sad thing is that people like her who stole $30 MILLION+ from the Koss stockholders and people like Latasha Jackson who stole MILLIONS from the taxpayers in a child care ring are, by definition, non-violent felons. Bottom line: Despite the fact that both women intentionally committed grand grand grand theft, both of them will be considered non-violent felons who will be released early from prison as part of the Doyle proposal to reduce prison costs. It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.
Foonchy
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:41:32 PM

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Joined: 1/19/2008
Posts: 25
Location: Wauwatosa
stubbornoldman wrote:
It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.


good thinking. because any kind of non-violent release program wouldn't have any kind of review process built in- just throw the jail door wide open, give criminals a big hug, and a free Cadillac to drive off into the sunset...
OldTosan
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:49:49 PM
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Joined: 4/16/2007
Posts: 48
Location: Wauwatosa
One irony struck me right away when I heard on the radio she was out of jail on $50,000 bail. Was that paid for with Michael Koss' money?

I realize that her husband is a powerful and well respected person and her salary was generous, but unless their net worth was at $31,050,000.00 or better, she just bailed herself out with ill-gotten gains!
stubbornoldman
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:27:12 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 658
OldTosan wrote:
One irony struck me right away when I heard on the radio she was out of jail on $50,000 bail. Was that paid for with Michael Koss' money?
I realize that her husband is a powerful and well respected person and her salary was generous, but unless their net worth was at $31,050,000.00 or better, she just bailed herself out with ill-gotten gains!

You and I probably reached that same conclusion in the same millisecond of time, OldTosan. Her husband's a doctor. I think it's a safe assumption that he's not an idiot. If that assumption is correct, then I find it impossible to believe that he could claim ignorance about his wife's spending habits. Prosecutors need to look very, very carefully at him as well. Oh, I forgot... He's probably mentally ill, just like his wife (insert sarcastic groan here).
cuddles
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:53:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,530
OldTosan wrote:
One irony struck me right away when I heard on the radio she was out of jail on $50,000 bail. Was that paid for with Michael Koss' money?

I realize that her husband is a powerful and well respected person and her salary was generous, but unless their net worth was at $31,050,000.00 or better, she just bailed herself out with ill-gotten gains!


Maybe a family member bailed her out? Her parents are in town helping her right now. Maybe a friend bailed her out?

Don't outsmart your common sense.
Tine
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:51:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/24/2007
Posts: 3,955
Location: Tosa
Foonchy wrote:
stubbornoldman wrote:
It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.


good thinking. because any kind of non-violent release program wouldn't have any kind of review process built in- just throw the jail door wide open, give criminals a big hug, and a free Cadillac to drive off into the sunset...


A big part of crime is opportunity. Do you think someone else is going to give Sachdeva an opportunity like this again? You want to support her indefinitely, as a tax payer, just to keep her locked up? If her crime brings Koss down, that will be a terrible thing for those who work there, and a bad thing for those who've invested in Koss. But keeping her in prison won't help either of those things.

Will it deter others? Maybe. But how should those who failed to notice what was going on be held accountable?
prodigal son
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:16:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 1,358
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
unclemeat wrote:
Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying

Eye-rolling Shame on you

Regardless of the outcome, the "addiction" route is a good PR move. When Koss stock hits $0.00/share and everyone loses their job because of her, you'll still have to feel kind of bad as she's an addict.

I've known people on anti-depressants (lots of them), I've known people who committed suicide due to depression, people who have been addicted to everything from booze to hard drugs to weed to shopping... I still don't have much sympathy. Being sad is part of being alive. I worry more about people who are NOT depressed than those who are. As Nancy said, this lady seemingly has control over her actions and that should be the bottom line. Even if you're unhappy or craving something desperately, you still have the ability to say "no."

Also - I agree with others who say there has to be more to this than just her. In the wake of all the creative accounting disasters of the last decade, I don't see how a public company could let this much money slip under their radar. There had to have been more than just a crooked exec and lousy auditor involved.


This is a clear case of sordid twisted 3 way...at least....sex ! That's my answer and I'm sticking to it.
prodigal son
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:27:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 1,358
Location: wauwatosa a long time ago
stubbornoldman wrote:
I want to know more about this accounting firm that Koss (er, I mean Sachdeva) used. Was it the same guy/gal who did it year in and year out? If so, that's a smoking gun for a conspiracy between Sue and the auditor(s). If she's got a mental illness that causes her to want things she can't afford on her own, then I've got the same mental illness because I want to drive a new BMW every year. It's crap. I want to be on that jury. That'll never happen because I listen to 'talk radio' and any defense attorney will strike me from the pool. Listening to Mark Belling's radio show as often as I do automatically makes me 'incredible' in more ways than one. Get it? Not credible, yet extraordinary. I crack myself up sometimes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incredible

The sad thing is that people like her who stole $30 MILLION+ from the Koss stockholders and people like Latasha Jackson who stole MILLIONS from the taxpayers in a child care ring are, by definition, non-violent felons. Bottom line: Despite the fact that both women intentionally committed grand grand grand theft, both of them will be considered non-violent felons who will be released early from prison as part of the Doyle proposal to reduce prison costs. It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.



Isn't listening to Belling....as much as you do....banned under the Geneva Convention ? Sir....I think you have been the victim of torture! Much of what you have been saying is now making sense to me....you have been under duress. Hang in there....we will find you and free you from your captors.
stubbornoldman
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:38:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 658
prodigal son wrote:
stubbornoldman wrote:
I want to know more about this accounting firm that Koss (er, I mean Sachdeva) used. Was it the same guy/gal who did it year in and year out? If so, that's a smoking gun for a conspiracy between Sue and the auditor(s). If she's got a mental illness that causes her to want things she can't afford on her own, then I've got the same mental illness because I want to drive a new BMW every year. It's crap. I want to be on that jury. That'll never happen because I listen to 'talk radio' and any defense attorney will strike me from the pool. Listening to Mark Belling's radio show as often as I do automatically makes me 'incredible' in more ways than one. Get it? Not credible, yet extraordinary. I crack myself up sometimes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incredible

The sad thing is that people like her who stole $30 MILLION+ from the Koss stockholders and people like Latasha Jackson who stole MILLIONS from the taxpayers in a child care ring are, by definition, non-violent felons. Bottom line: Despite the fact that both women intentionally committed grand grand grand theft, both of them will be considered non-violent felons who will be released early from prison as part of the Doyle proposal to reduce prison costs. It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.



Isn't listening to Belling....as much as you do....banned under the Geneva Convention ? Sir....I think you have been the victim of torture! Much of what you have been saying is now making sense to me....you have been under duress. Hang in there....we will find you and free you from your captors.


Sir, it appears as though you're regurgitating many of the talking points from shows like the Al Franken Show on AirAmerica. Well done. I appreciate your concern for my well-being. The best to you, as well.
stubbornoldman
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:48:59 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 658
Tine wrote:
Foonchy wrote:
stubbornoldman wrote:
It's too bad that Doyle isn't running for Gov again. I'd love to have a reporter ask him whether Sachdeva AND Jackson will be eligible for early release under HIS proposal since both are presumably non-violent.


good thinking. because any kind of non-violent release program wouldn't have any kind of review process built in- just throw the jail door wide open, give criminals a big hug, and a free Cadillac to drive off into the sunset...


A big part of crime is opportunity. Do you think someone else is going to give Sachdeva an opportunity like this again? You want to support her indefinitely, as a tax payer, just to keep her locked up? If her crime brings Koss down, that will be a terrible thing for those who work there, and a bad thing for those who've invested in Koss. But keeping her in prison won't help either of those things.

Will it deter others? Maybe. But how should those who failed to notice what was going on be held accountable?

Money means nothing to people like this, Tine. They've got gobs of it and they've presumably NEVER had money problems (at least not while Sue was 'balancing' the Koss checkbook). The big equalizer between people like you, me and Sue is TIME. I have no idea what prison/jail/HOC-like correction time she's looking at, but no amount of money can buy FREE time outside of the prison walls. Remember what happened to that guy from Enron just as everything was collapsing around him? The amount of money HE stole is chump change compared to what Sue did. If Sue takes the same route as Clifford Baxter did, then your worry about the taxpayers having to support her for the rest of her life in prison is gone. I think that Sue's ____tting in her designer gold-laced boots right now at the thought of spending one minute in prison compare to the lifestyle she's led so far. Let's watch what happens just before sentencing time if/when she's found guilty of this alleged crime.
Nancy
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:26:10 AM

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Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 7,461
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Her sentence will probably include fines, restitution, and a hefty prison sentence. She'll have plenty of time to reflect on the error of her ways while peeling potatoes and scrubbing toilets. If she earns early release, it's unlikely that she'll return to her previous way of life. I'm guessing that her husband will distance himself as quickly as he can, if he hasn't done so already. As long as she's on parole, she'll be subject to the limitations imposed by the legal system. Unless she had the foresight to invest at least some of the money, whatever she's able to earn in the future will go toward fines and restitution. In her case, that future will probably be the rest of her life.

So explain, again, how society is served by keeping her locked up if she demonstrates that she no longer poses a threat. Remember.....we're not talking about Mike Huckabee style prison release in which violent criminals are given pardons for no apparent reason. We're talking about supervised, monitored release of non-violent criminals so they can start supporting themselves and paying their victims back ahead of schedule.

The difference between humans and other mammals is that we know how to accessorize.

Madeleine Albright speaking on the uses of jewelry in diplomacy.
stubbornoldman
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:11:12 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 658
Nancy wrote:
So explain, again, how society is served by keeping her locked up if she demonstrates that she no longer poses a threat. Remember.....we're not talking about Mike Huckabee style prison release in which violent criminals are given pardons for no apparent reason. We're talking about supervised, monitored release of non-violent criminals so they can start supporting themselves and paying their victims back ahead of schedule.


As you know, there's a basic philosophical difference between conservative people like me who want our prisons and jails to serve as a venue of 'punishment', and progressive people like you who think that just about everybody in an orange prison jumpsuit can be rehabilitated given the proper environment/program. Huckabee's revolving door policy of releasing prisoners has bit him in the ass as you well know. Let's hope it torpedoes his political career and possibly his broadcasting career at FOXNEWS.

We have to draw priorities with our limited tax dollars. You want yours spent on social programs and you've been consistent with that viewpoint. I want mine spent on building & staffing more prisons and I've been consistent with that viewpoint. The fact that (D) Doyle has funded more public defender positions in his state budget instead of increasing the number of District Attorneys clearly shows that he agrees with your philosophy much more than mine. Heck, even (D) David Clarke agrees with me in that he feels 'it is the Sheriff's duty to make jail and the HOC as legally as inhospitable as possible' (paraphrasing from an interview he did on WISN AM1130's morning show earlier this week). Clarke wants to make his jails and the HOC places where thugs don't ever want to be.

There are good and bad people in this world. Those who have done things to 'earn' an all-expense paid extended stay at Waupun are clearly the worst of the worst that our State has to offer. I would argue that these 'guests' are incapable of changing their ways through any social program or any rehabilitation. You do the crime, you do the time.
Tine
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:05:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 1/24/2007
Posts: 3,955
Location: Tosa
stubbornoldman wrote:

As you know, there's a basic philosophical difference between conservative people like me who want our prisons and jails to serve as a venue of 'punishment', and progressive people like you who think that just about everybody in an orange prison jumpsuit can be rehabilitated given the proper environment/program.
(large snip)
There are good and bad people in this world. Those who have done things to 'earn' an all-expense paid extended stay at Waupun are clearly the worst of the worst that our State has to offer. I would argue that these 'guests' are incapable of changing their ways through any social program or any rehabilitation. You do the crime, you do the time.


If we're ever going to get out of the mess we're in, we're probably going to have to learn to work together. Even if that is what Obama said, it's a reasonable statement. And if we keep insisting that one group of people is

over here and the other group is over there and nobody is in between, we're stuck.

People are either good or bad? How can that jibe with your experience of life? I don't know anyone who's not a combination of both, or at least anyone who doesn't do both good and bad things.

I don't think it makes any sense to determine how we punish by the worst cases. Should we punish pot smokers the same way we punish serial rapists? Of course not.

Punishment and rehabilitation aren't opposites. You punish AND you rehabilitate. I will buy that there are a few criminals who are so warped, so evil, that they must be kept away from society forever. But that's a small percentage.

While there's always personal choice, situation is a huge factor. Most crimes are committed by young men. Why? Immaturity, testosterone, culture, all sorts of stuff. If you get people into their 30s alive and not too hardened, with possibilities ahead of them, many of them will turn away from crime.

This woman is not the same as a murderer. That much is simple. You seem to prefer eye for eye justice. If that's the case, take away all her money. It still won't help Koss, but it will make some feel justice has prevailed.
Ted Anthony
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:20:12 PM
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Joined: 7/25/2008
Posts: 405
Location: Wauwatosa
That's nothing I have been suffering from Affluenza for some time now and mortgagitus (Fear of paying my mortgage) but with some added shoplifting in my life I will be healed.



Tine wrote:
JiveTurkey wrote:
So, Sujata Sachdeva is pleading not guilty due to mental illness. What, she has a shopping addiction??? She stole money to buy things she couldn't afford....wouldn't that put just about every other thief into that category??

And the article makes mention that her husband made a compassionate gesture to her in the courtroom. What he had no idea what was going on?? They had an extra $30 million worth of stuff in the house and he didn't think anything was odd. So, my wife makes $x and shes spending money on cloths and stuff like she's making $xxxx, am I just supposed to think hey...she sure makes a dollar go a long way???


Everybody I know in the mental health "business" took one look at the first report and said "Duh. She's bipolar."

Now, I am not saying people who are bipolar are of course embezzlers, though I am quite sure someone will say that's what I've said. But the combination of high energy workaholism, gradiose thinking, high intelligence and mad money spending (or sexual activity, especially for men) is strongly suggestive of this disorder.

Clearly, her thinking is disordered in some way. Does that let her off the hook? No, of course not. But it will be interesting to hear how much we learn about this, and whether she was on medication over those years.
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