Tosa Town Square
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

<<Boards Main>>
Nancy
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:12:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 10,911
Location: East Side Wauwatosa
beck wrote:
Gosh you really are a ditz.

Quote:
If Foxconn is so fabulous, then what was the point of the article you posted?



Quote:
Gates is the exception in that he passes his wealth on to others in several ways, including the fact that he pays his employees well. Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream.



http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/hundreds-threaten-suicide-at-microsoft-supplier-plant-in-china/

Get it dingbat? He isnt the exception, he is doing the same as Steve Jobs did...maximizing shareholder value. Gates is the largest single holder of shares of MSFT btw.


And he (or Microsoft, anyway) pays his employees well...unlike some other rich CEOs. That's my main point.

Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Happytransplant1
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:11:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 304
Location: Tosa Eastside
http://www.last.fm/music/James+McMurtry/_/We+Can%27t+Make+It+Here



"When you walk through the door of opportunity, you do not slam it behind you. You reach back and help others succeed."
~Michelle Obama, Septemebr 04, 2012~
Nancy
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:07:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 10,911
Location: East Side Wauwatosa
beck wrote:
Gosh you really are a ditz.

Quote:
If Foxconn is so fabulous, then what was the point of the article you posted?



Quote:
Gates is the exception in that he passes his wealth on to others in several ways, including the fact that he pays his employees well. Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream.



http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/hundreds-threaten-suicide-at-microsoft-supplier-plant-in-china/

Get it dingbat? He isnt the exception, he is doing the same as Steve Jobs did...maximizing shareholder value. Gates is the largest single holder of shares of MSFT btw.


Your problem is that when you spew hate, you aren't necessarily looking at the big picture. That's why you often end up spewing all over yourself. When are you going to learn to get out of your own way?

Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
2rottieguy
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:36:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/26/2007
Posts: 2,492
Location: eastside tosa
Possibly. Where I used to work we had quite a few robotic cells. If you have a high production long term job it's cheaper to buy a couple of robots over the long term than to hire people. Without the robots we would not have been competitive in our pricing. when the job runs out now you have a robot for the next job already paid for except for the programming and fixturing.

The dickens you say.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:53:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Zorro wrote:
izzie wrote:
If it's a war, who started it? Here are some ideas.


Zorro is disturbed that Zorro has missed this thread.

Zorro tells you that the solution is simple. What would Zorro do!

Zorro would steal from the rich and give to the poor!
Zorro tells this Ozzie the solution is obvious.

The Unicyclist has lost some respect for the great Zorro. The Unicyclist is against involuntary wealth transfers.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:08:20 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.

rubber
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:34:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 1,689
Location: tosa
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.
beck
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:44:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/31/2009
Posts: 1,109
rubber wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.


The reason why folks like Unicycle and I broke out on our own is not to be nice guys and employ people. Employees are a pain in the ass for the most part, we do it to make a profit. If you think it is so easy Mr Rubber, get off of your large rear end and see how much fun it is. The world owes no one a living.

“Productiveness is your acceptance of morality, your recognition of the fact that you choose to live–that productive work is the process by which man's consciousness controls his existence, a constant process of acquiring knowledge and shaping matter to fit one's purpose, of translating an idea into physical form, of remaking the earth in the image of one's values–that all work is creative work if done by a thinking mind...” | Atlas Shrugged
2rottieguy
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:31:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/26/2007
Posts: 2,492
Location: eastside tosa
Well then, get rid of all yor people and see how much you can make on your own.

The dickens you say.
cuddles
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:53:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 3,211
rubber wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.


I was watching a news show about "insourcing" - bringing jobs back to America. The CEO of a company that was bringing jobs back cited the reason as having to pay more in wages to the Chinese workers. In the beginning he was paying them 54 cents per hour. It's risen to $3.00 per hour. That wage is projected to go up to $5.00 per hour in the next two years. He said when he factors in the wage increase, the cost of shipping his product back to the USA, the inefficiency of Chinese workers (American workers are 3-4 times more efficient due to their basic education), and the lack of regulations in China it made monetary sense to insource versus outsource. One person asked him how can that make sense since you have to pay American workers so much more. His answer was that he hires three Chinese employees for every one American.


Don't outsmart your common sense.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:39:29 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
beck wrote:
rubber wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.


The reason why folks like Unicycle and I broke out on our own is not to be nice guys and employ people. Employees are a pain in the ass for the most part, we do it to make a profit. If you think it is so easy Mr Rubber, get off of your large rear end and see how much fun it is. The world owes no one a living.

Just for clarification - I don't take the same view about employees as Beck. In the business I'm in, they do a helluva job and are part of the equation in our ability to make money. As the company succeeds, so do all of the employees.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:45:33 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
rubber wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.

The curious thing to me is how there can be such high unemployment and yet so many businesses that I'm familiar with all have as their number one problem, finding quality help. So the paradox is there is a labor shortage at the same time there is high unemployment.
cuddles
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:25:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 3,211
The Unicyclist wrote:
rubber wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



Your argument works in a non-Global economy but this is 2012.

Or it just drives business to countries where folks can people for what they're worth. Dirt. Heck, make the kids work too... they're cheap.

The curious thing to me is how there can be such high unemployment and yet so many businesses that I'm familiar with all have as their number one problem, finding quality help. So the paradox is there is a labor shortage at the same time there is high unemployment.


My husband's company is in dire need of truck drivers. Apparently there is a HUGE shortage of good truck drivers.


Don't outsmart your common sense.
Nancy
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:46:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 10,911
Location: East Side Wauwatosa
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



It isn't blather at all. The fact that you characterize paying people for their work as "charity" and "alms" says it all. If you're profiting from their labor, you need to pay them enough to live on. If you can't run your business without shortchanging your employees, then your business is a failure.

Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:14:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



It isn't blather at all. The fact that you characterize paying people for their work as "charity" and "alms" says it all. If you're profiting from their labor, you need to pay them enough to live on. If you can't run your business without shortchanging your employees, then your business is a failure.

If you care to, I'd ask you to re-read my post. You appear to have misunderstood what I wrote.

Responding to some of what you wrote: I disagree with you. I don't need to pay a person enough to live on. I need to pay them what they are worth. If I am doing that, I'm not shortchanging them.
Nancy
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:50:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/13/2007
Posts: 10,911
Location: East Side Wauwatosa
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



It isn't blather at all. The fact that you characterize paying people for their work as "charity" and "alms" says it all. If you're profiting from their labor, you need to pay them enough to live on. If you can't run your business without shortchanging your employees, then your business is a failure.

If you care to, I'd ask you to re-read my post. You appear to have misunderstood what I wrote.

Responding to some of what you wrote: I disagree with you. I don't need to pay a person enough to live on. I need to pay them what they are worth. If I am doing that, I'm not shortchanging them.


I read and understood your post. You don't think that business owners are obliged to pay employees enough to live on. Basing salary on what somebody is worth is arbitrary. What measure do you use to determine an employee's worth?

Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Zorro
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:44:35 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/8/2009
Posts: 657
The Unicyclist wrote:
Zorro wrote:
izzie wrote:
If it's a war, who started it? Here are some ideas.


Zorro is disturbed that Zorro has missed this thread.

Zorro tells you that the solution is simple. What would Zorro do!

Zorro would steal from the rich and give to the poor!
Zorro tells this Ozzie the solution is obvious.

The Unicyclist has lost some respect for the great Zorro. The Unicyclist is against involuntary wealth transfers.


Zorro agrees with the caveman on one wheel.

Zorro steals only from the wicked.

Zorro tells you that the Mark of Zorro from Zoro's sharp sword is Zorro's brand of social justice!

Esta habitación ya está manchada de sangre ... un poco más no hará ninguna diffrence! - Don Diego
joeythelovesponge
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:47:40 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/4/2007
Posts: 1,903
Location: tosa
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



It isn't blather at all. The fact that you characterize paying people for their work as "charity" and "alms" says it all. If you're profiting from their labor, you need to pay them enough to live on. If you can't run your business without shortchanging your employees, then your business is a failure.

If you care to, I'd ask you to re-read my post. You appear to have misunderstood what I wrote.

Responding to some of what you wrote: I disagree with you. I don't need to pay a person enough to live on. I need to pay them what they are worth. If I am doing that, I'm not shortchanging them.


I read and understood your post. You don't think that business owners are obliged to pay employees enough to live on. Basing salary on what somebody is worth is arbitrary. What measure do you use to determine an employee's worth?


It's both art and science. You can do your research on the local labor market, that's a scientific approach, but the art is in the negotiation. If you want to hire an employee, you first have to make them an offer. If they accept it, you make them pee in a cup.

Let me ask you a question. If you were queen of the world, what would be the minimum wage you would mandate on employers?
The Unicyclist
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:23:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Nancy wrote:
..... Just employing 55,000 people is not enough unless you pay them a living wage. Making billions while employing workers at minimum wage is not the American Dream. It's a nightmare and it's exploitation. ....

This talk about living wages is just blather. As an employer, I would not pay a person a dime more than they're worth. Being in business doesn't mean you run a charity. Paying people more than they are worth is giving alms. Competition in the marketplace drives fat out of companies, or the companies eventually fail. There is no room for alms in a business.



It isn't blather at all. The fact that you characterize paying people for their work as "charity" and "alms" says it all. If you're profiting from their labor, you need to pay them enough to live on. If you can't run your business without shortchanging your employees, then your business is a failure.

If you care to, I'd ask you to re-read my post. You appear to have misunderstood what I wrote.

Responding to some of what you wrote: I disagree with you. I don't need to pay a person enough to live on. I need to pay them what they are worth. If I am doing that, I'm not shortchanging them.


I read and understood your post. You don't think that business owners are obliged to pay employees enough to live on. Basing salary on what somebody is worth is arbitrary. What measure do you use to determine an employee's worth?

The market rate.
The Unicyclist
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:25:18 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/21/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Zorro wrote:
The Unicyclist wrote:
Zorro wrote:
izzie wrote:
If it's a war, who started it? Here are some ideas.


Zorro is disturbed that Zorro has missed this thread.

Zorro tells you that the solution is simple. What would Zorro do!

Zorro would steal from the rich and give to the poor!
Zorro tells this Ozzie the solution is obvious.

The Unicyclist has lost some respect for the great Zorro. The Unicyclist is against involuntary wealth transfers.


Zorro agrees with the caveman on one wheel.

Zorro steals only from the wicked.

Zorro tells you that the Mark of Zorro from Zoro's sharp sword is Zorro's brand of social justice!

Even a caveman can sense the good in Zorro. Long live Zorro!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
Classified
Looking for a used car, a new job or a place to live? Search our interactive online classified ads.

Jobs | Cars | Homes
Rentals | Personals | More
Shopping
Yellow Pages
Find goods and services from local merchants in the online yellow pages.

Search