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oldtimer
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:04:50 AM
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No matter what one thinks about the global warming issue, it is an incredulous stretch to award a peace prize for work in this area.

Is this a "jump the shark" moment for the Nobel peace prize?
Tosa_townie
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:35:27 AM
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The Nobel Peace prize is a joke, remember it was given to terrorist Yasser Arafat , and to that Jew hating anti semite Jimmy 'malaise' Carter.

This was predictable, even thought Algores' movie was discredited by the scientific community.
CrustyTheClown
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:39:30 AM

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My wife and I visited the Nobel museum in Stockholm this spring. Very moving; there's a constantly running slideshow of all the winners with some words or recorded speeches playing. Hearing Winston Churchill's "we will never surrender...", Dr. King's "I have a dream.........", and such moved one to tears.

I'm certainly glad that we saw it prior to this nonsense.

A peace prize, "for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change".

I wonder if the prize can be rescinded when it's all proven to be natural, not man-made?



"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Sam Adams
Tine
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:20:32 AM

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Maybe what global warming has to do with peace is that any disruption of a community that throws it into an economic tailspin 1) makes it vulnerable to predation, and 2) makes going into someone else's space to take what you want or need a better idea.

And if we are able to work together to work on slowing or dealing with the ramifications of global warming, whatever its cause, well, we might be able to work together on so many things. Peacefully, not by acts of violence against others.

Get off the teat?! We are the teat.
Meg
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:25:22 AM

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I agree with Tine. You only need to look at how Milwaukeeans react to Waukeshans over a request for Lake Michigan water to see how quickly resources can be depleted and old grudges ignited.

@MegMcKenna - Twitter
"City On the Lake" Weblog
oldtimer
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:58:24 AM
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Location: Wauwatosa
The great lakes water issue is not a Milwaukee versus New Berlin issue. People in New Berlin beyond the Great Lakes water shed knew about the potential water issues when they developed the area. And no one would equate that issue with peace. Discussing scientific issues and solutions to science related problems by themselves do not deal with issues related to peace. At this time no knows if implementation of suggested actions would have any impact on peace in the world. My driving less or switching to driving a hydrogen fueled car would have nothing to do with global peace.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad renouncing building nuclear weapons and actually stopping any such efforts would have a greater impact on world peace than anything Al Gore has done and would then be a better candidate for the award.
cbroolio
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:12:48 AM

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Tine wrote:
Maybe what global warming has to do with peace is that any disruption of a community that throws it into an economic tailspin 1) makes it vulnerable to predation, and 2) makes going into someone else's space to take what you want or need a better idea.

And if we are able to work together to work on slowing or dealing with the ramifications of global warming, whatever its cause, well, we might be able to work together on so many things. Peacefully, not by acts of violence against others.


That would be if you believed that we had any control over global warming. Now I'm not saying there are man-made emissions and that REASONABLE efforts can be made to control them, but I heard somewhere (sorry, I don't have a cite but I will look for one) that of all carbon/garbage/greenhouse gas emissions that under 2% of them are man-made.

And even if we reduced our carbon/garbage/greenhouse gas emissions to nothing that we would have absolutely no impact.

Plus - I'm not sure if we need to question the integrity of the scientist or simply point out the uncertainty of the science, but some scientist involved in pushing forward this agenda was the guy who 30 years ago thought that our carbon/garbage/greenhouse gas emissions were sending us into Global Cooling. hmm, imagine that.

Oh well... I've vented. Back to work.

Edit to add:

FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE

Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.

At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.

CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.

CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.

If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!

SOURCE: http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html


"Yep, I'm on Nancy's side on this too." - CrustyTheClown
Nancy
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:54:18 AM

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This is not the first time an environmentalist has won the Peace Prize. The 2004 winner was Wangari Maathai, a Kenyan woman who has fought against deforestation in her country. Last year's prize went to Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus, whose Grameen Bank has enabled poor people to develop their own businesses by loaning them small amounts of money at fair interest rates. It sounds like the Nobel committee is expanding their definition of peacemaking efforts.

I agree with Tine that there is potential for conflict as climate changes affect the quality of the land and the economy. I did read somewhere that this was one of the committee's considerations.



Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
cbroolio
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:10:56 AM

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Nancy wrote:
This is not the first time an environmentalist has won the Peace Prize.



I counter that Al Gore is not an environmentalist.


"Yep, I'm on Nancy's side on this too." - CrustyTheClown
CrustyTheClown
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:41:29 AM

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Nancy wrote:
This is not the first time an environmentalist has won the Peace Prize. The 2004 winner was Wangari Maathai, a Kenyan woman who has fought against deforestation in her country. Last year's prize went to Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus, whose Grameen Bank has enabled poor people to develop their own businesses by loaning them small amounts of money at fair interest rates. It sounds like the Nobel committee is expanding their definition of peacemaking efforts.

I agree with Tine that there is potential for conflict as climate changes affect the quality of the land and the economy. I did read somewhere that this was one of the committee's considerations.



Those are people who actually did something.


"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Sam Adams
CrustyTheClown
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:48:48 AM

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Al Gore won an award for his excellent work in junk-science and really making the world aware of it's effects.

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Sam Adams
JiveTurkey
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:58:28 AM

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CrustyTheClown wrote:
Al Gore won an award for his excellent work in junk-science and really making the world aware of it's effects.


I don't agree with you, but I would rather that than the contribution George Bush has made to the world. Whistle

...I'm not here to make things better, only to observe and pass judgement.
CrustyTheClown
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:07:24 PM

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JiveTurkey wrote:
CrustyTheClown wrote:
Al Gore won an award for his excellent work in junk-science and really making the world aware of it's effects.


I don't agree with you, but I would rather that than the contribution George Bush has made to the world. Whistle


Crusty won't fall for a such a cheap flame-bait attempt! Devil

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Sam Adams
JiveTurkey
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:18:40 PM

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CrustyTheClown wrote:
Crusty won't fall for a such a cheap flame-bait attempt! Devil

Well...at least I tried. I think whether global warming is man made or natural is a debate that will go one forever. But it is an issue that we and more importantly our kids are going to need to deal with. If it is just some sort of natural cycle that's fine, but so was the ice age and look what that did. It's an issue that the whole world will have to deal with and I do believe that Al Gore did raise people's awareness that there is a global issue at hand.

...I'm not here to make things better, only to observe and pass judgement.
Nancy
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:43:13 PM

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Concerns about global warming have nothing to do with whether or not CO2 is good. It's a naturally occurring gas, as are all the greenhouse gases. Increases in these gases causes temperatures to rise. Global warming can happen naturally. It's actually essential to life on earth. The problem now is that industrial emissions and deforestation are creating the conditions that lead to global warming. These are things that any third grader could tell you. Nobody disputes that global warming is a real phenomenon. The debate is over the cause. The overwhelming majority of environmental scientists and organizations throughout the world have endorsed the theory that human activity is contributing to global warming. This doesn't mean that we're the only factor, but it means that we are a factor and maybe the biggest factor at the moment. This is not junk science. The junk scientists are the handful of crackpots who insist that human activity could not possibly be changing the environment. That kind of claim is absurd. How could we exist on earth and not have an impact? If we accept global warming as a consequence of the natural growth of the human population, then so be it - but there are likely to be problems if global warming continues. We can't necessarily stop or reverse global warming, but we can reduce our impact on the world's climate and maybe slow the process. That's all that Gore and the folks at the UN are talking about doing.

Al Gore is being recognized for sounding the alarm and for making sure that the issue is not forgotten. He deserves the award - not to mention the Oscar and the Emmy. Is he up for a Grammy this year?

Hitchens’ Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
JiveTurkey
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:49:25 PM

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Nancy - Very good response! Although we have disagreed in the past, I am in 100% agreement with you on this.

...I'm not here to make things better, only to observe and pass judgement.
cbroolio
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:09:27 PM

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Nancy wrote:
The problem now is that industrial emissions and deforestation are creating the conditions that lead to global warming. These are things that any third grader could tell you.

Nobody disputes that global warming is a real phenomenon.

The debate is over the cause.

This is not junk science.

The junk scientists are the handful of crackpots who insist that human activity could not possibly be changing the environment. That kind of claim is absurd. How could we exist on earth and not have an impact?
...


a) Any third grader that has been through the brainwashing.

b) Nobody? Really?

c) The debate is whether or not man can impact. I'm not saying we start spewing as many pollutants into the air as that would be unpleasant, but everyone driving a Prius isn't going to help.

d) One could argue that it is.

e) I think it's arrogant of us to think that we could impact it? Seriously, there used to be glaciers in Wisconsin. Who/what caused that? Were the dinosaurs emitting too much CO2 in their SUVs?

Anyways... these brilliant scientists were right on in the 70s when this came out: Time Magazine Global Cooling Article

Seriously people, these are theories which are great. But you can't tell me that some scientist can tell us how much things have warmed/cooled/whatever in the past 10,000 years because they didn't have proper instrumentation to record temperatures. They can try to guess what they were but I guarantee you they will come up with whatever suits what they are trying to support.



"Yep, I'm on Nancy's side on this too." - CrustyTheClown
spongebob
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:11:30 PM

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In statistics there is an alpha risk & a beta risk. Relating to Global Warming-

The alpha risk is to spend Billions of $$ assuming that we can slow global warming
when we cannot.

The beta risk is to do nothing and accelerate global warming, potentially destroying our planet for our grandkids
when if we would have spent the Billions$ now we may be able to slow global warming.

The alpha risk is we waste Billions of $$$
The beta risk is we waste Earth

Isn't it worth the risk?

We are already wasting Billions in Iraq, why not on Earth?

oldtimer
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:23:10 PM
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Thre is no disagreement that the issue of global warming should be discussed. The question is why wasn't the award for science? No one has produced a cogent response meaningfully linking this work with peace. Predictably people are answering different questions which have more to do with U. S. politics than global warming.

The significance of the award is being diluted.
Jrock
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:25:09 PM

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What did Al Gore do to piss off so many people? Besides the creepy kiss between him and Tipper?

He conceded the 2000 election, when he had good reason to continue the fight.
He droppped out of the 'political' spotlight...don't blame him because the media has made him a rock star.
He's changed the way the public has started to view evironmental issues. It's not his science, he's just the MC behind it.

If you're going to discredit even the notion of Global Warming, because it's presented by someone from the left, then your life is meaningless as is. Keep thinking the earth is 6000 years old because that's what the extremists want you to believe.

The aforementioned article regarding "Global Cooling" from the 1970's was based on data collected from over 2 years, the winters of 1978 and 1979 if I am not mistaken....wow...that's some trend setting data, 2 whole years. C'mon.

"...living in the sprawl. Big shopping malls rise like mountains, neon mountains. And there's no end in sight, I need the darkness someone please cut the lights." 'Sprawl II (Mountains) Arcade Fire
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